That's the point made in this excellent op-ed piece by James A. Lopata for the In Newsweekly in Boston.
The entire editorial is well worth reading, but here's a good excerpt:
"The divide on gay rights is not a divide between gay rights supporters and Christians. There are Christians on both sides of the issue. The divide is between gay rights supporters and those who favor discriminating against gay people. That's it.
Let's stop pretending that religion has anything to do with this. Those who support discrimination may think that it is because they are Christian, but nobody, least of all the press, should let them get away with it.
Just because most - if not all - gay rights opponents are religious, doesn't mean that all gay people are anti-religious. The press needs to do a better job of ensuring that the Christian voice is heard on both sides of the debate. "
Leaders of the religious right have given bigots the cover of morality and "God's word" to practice their hatred of people not like themselves in a socially acceptable manner. By trying to be impartial, or even worse agreeing with them, most of the mainstream media has validated this approach by allowing it to go unchallenged.
For God's true voice to be heard, however, these people must be challenged!
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Amen to this. It's not just equality for Lesbians and Gay men that's at stake when Christianity is used to justify discrimination; it's Christianity itself. The more the Christ's message is misinterpreted and distorted, the less effective it is. Over many centuries, false prophets have managed to turn the Christian faith into a tool of Satan, an appalling situation that must be reversed. The Gay Rights struggle can be, and should be, a means of defining and reclaiming true Christian faith. The fundamentalist crowd don't know it, but they desperately need us to help them secure their salvation. If glorifying God can become the ultimate goal of Gay activists, then all that they do in the name of justice and equality they will do in the Lord's name as well.
ReplyDeleteNot only that but even ex-gays who are christian support gay rights. We are not all blinded.
ReplyDeleteI wish I could say I find the term "ex-Gay" funny. I don't. I consider it a form of brainwashing engaged in by certain fundamentalist Bible sects. I do find it rather funny, though, that someone claiming to be "ex-Gay" would troll Gay-oriented websites. I guess old habits are hard to break!
ReplyDeletewhat if a person became ex-gay without religious influence? poeple are so blinded by this term and politics that it is not funny. you assume, that ex-gay means christian fundamentalist. it does not. it means change. i am not syaing biological change. i am not saying that all gays can change and I AM saying that some people are born gay. Also, what is not funny is the brainwashing that goes on in the gay community that if you have sex with your own gender then you are gay and will always be. not true. some people have had same sex sex because of trauma or some other circumstance. believing that itis ALWAYS biological is ALSO brainwashing. I would know.
ReplyDeleteYou're off-topic here, and I'm not going to be drawn into a debate I've already had with you. Personally, I don't care if you think you're an "ex-Gay." I don't care what means you used to make yourself "ex-Gay." I do wonder, though, what you're doing falling up in Gay-oriented websites now that you're "ex-Gay?" What do you get out of it? Isn't it time for you to move on into your happy, heterosexual future?
ReplyDeleteWell, this is a straight website but not narrow. In addition, this blog was about christians and gays. And ex-gays. So... I put in my perspective. You are in the debate as long as you keep a narrow view of what it means to sexual and human. Stuffed animal, you sound very bitter about the way christians have treated you. For that I am sorry. But that does not mean that you can abuse me or attack me. In now way did I attack you or tell you not to be gay or otherwise. I just asked that you also allow the thought the thought that ex-gays do exist, we do not all vote agains gays, we are not all anti-gay. Why does that bother you for me to support you and stand on my ground, too?
ReplyDeleteI will never forget the poor treatment I recieved as a lesbian and will always continue to fight the godd fight - even when people like you are mad at me (for no reason at all) That's why I am here - to be a voise where there is none.
ReplyDeletesorry for all the mispelling folks - I am in a rush most of the time and do not do spell check.
ReplyDeleteYou didn't answer my question. Hanging around gay-oriented websites is surely not the best way to pursue a "post-Gay" lifestyle. Why are you begging Gay people to accept you? Why aren't you acting like a Straight person? They don't do that.
ReplyDeleteIf you've been addicted to "homosexual behavior", don't you think you ought to stay away from homosexual people? Anybody who knows anything about addiction knows that an addict shouldn't continue to put himself in proximity to what he's addicted to. Relapse is all but certain.
So if you want people to believe you're "cured", you'd better start acting like it. As an "ex-Gay," you're about as convincing as an elephant trying to stuff itself into a ferret costume. And please, learn to stay on topic!
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteI sincerely hope you are where God wants you to be right now, regardless of the path you took to get there. I share stuffed animal's skepicism about anyone who declares they are "ex-gay" becuase I've done a lot of homework on the falicy of that concept. That does not mean, however, that someone could have been confused and thought they were gay or lesbian and actually were not born that way. I hope you fall into that category and can now live your life for all it can be.
I did not say I was born that way. I did say, I was told that because I had sex with someone of my own gender that I was gay. When I tried to leave the lifestyle, I was mocked, made fun of, told I was really gay and could not change etc... I am saying that those kinds of thoughts are just as much brainwashing as telling a person who was born gay that they are not gay. If this is unclear please ask so I can clarify.
ReplyDeleteStuffed Animal, you call homosexuality an addiction. I did not. That is your opinion. Being "post gay" as you put it does not mean that I am uninvolved in gay rights - um - why would that be? I think as a woman who knows the pain of discrimination that as an ex-gay I should continue to value the lives of GLBT and support those rights. And I should let those in the community see that not everyone who leaves homosexuality behind is a fundamentalist christian who hates gay people. Straight people who have never known the burden and agony of being de-humanized by the christian right will never fully understand what we understand. I am straight with the experience of knowing what it is like when people don't want you to get married, have a job, live somewhere etc... Just because I did not stay gay does not mean that my heart has turned sour.
ReplyDeleteJim Johnson, beware of this person! She's been spinning this same tall tale over on Wayne Besen's site, and he had to delete several of her comments because she became abusive. Twice she has sidestepped my question about why someone who had been "addicted to homosexuality" would spend so much time on Gay-oriented sites. Her supposed concern for the rights of Gay people is false, because she spouts ex-Gay movement rhetoric whenever she gets the chance. She's claiming that people can be made Gay by others, and that she was trapped in a "Gay lifestyle" after one same-sex encounter. You can't possibly believe such drivel! Clearly, her ultimate game plan is to use the sympathy she hopes to generate among Gay and Gay-friendly folk as a springboard for her "homosexuality is curable" agenda. That was the whole point of her bringing up the ex-Gay issue in response to a post that made no mention of it at all. She tries to steer every conversation in the subtly homophobic direction she wants it to go.
ReplyDeleteWow! Stuffed animal, you have surely been mislead. Wayne Besem deleted my comments that are just as the ones posted here. There may be another person you have me confused with. In no way did I say homosexuality was an addiction. In no way did I say a gay encounter trapped me in the lifestyle. I will say loudly and clearly that yes I was sexually abuse as a child and was afraid of men. Because I come from a liberal family, homosexuality was an alternative for me. No big deal. I took that. Years later, when I was able to look at the abuse (not in therapy but just on my own) I realized that homosexuality was not for me. When I tried to explain this to my friends I was ridiculed and my sexual abuse was soooo overlooked that I was cut down for having my experiences. Just as you are doing now.
ReplyDeleteAs a woman who has experienced discrimination for being a lesbian and as a woman who has been insulted for leaving that lifestyle behind I understand the bias and narrow mindedness of both sides of the fence. AGAIN - I WILL SAY that not everyone who engages in homosexuality is truly homosexual. AGAIN I WILL SAY - some people are born gay. AND AGIAN I WILL SAY - people have a right to look at their life in a way that no one else has that right.
Stuffed Animal, you are as abusive a person as I have encountered. You have accused me of of being abusive. I challenge you - document it. I have clear documentation that you have called me names, made assertions about my sexuality, drew conclusions that I can't imagine. This blog site is about being not narrow minded. How dare you say that I am unwelcome to support GLBT's! Inspite of your words, I will continue to allow people to know stories like mine.
Jim,
ReplyDeleteMs. Anonymous knows damn well that there's no documentation of her abusive posts to Wayne Besen's website, because he deleted them all. You can still see the deletions of her anonymous posts, though, if you surf over to Wayne's blog and check out his "Truth Wins Out" essay dated August 10, 2006. I was wondering what else she had up her sleeve, and it turns out to be one of the oldest myths of all: That sexual abuse by a man will "turn" a woman into a Lesbian. She'll probably throw some kind of "Gay recruitment" scenario at you next. What you've got here is a stealth Religious Right Winger. She really ought to give up her charade, because everybody can see through it by now. She casually drops ex-Gay rhetoric into her posts, and when you call her on it, she denies saying what she said and starts wailing like a poor, wounded bird. I have no sympathy for her, because countless Lesbians and Gay men have been and continue to be hurt by the misinformation she's deliberately spreading. And if challenging a fraud to come clean about her motives is abuse, I'll wear the title of abuser with pride. Maybe it takes one to know one, eh?
No. Sexual abuse does not make all women turn to lesbianism. That is how I interpreted my experience. SA, you are no doubt insecure about your own life. Otherwise you would not be sooooo defensive. You are just like the Right Wingers. Accuse, accuse, accuse and make others see things your way and your way only. You might as well eat dinner with them. Also, you may use anything I have said here to prove whether or not I am abusive. Wayne removed posts - some were from me - some were from someone else. People do change their tastes and desires over time. Some people just do not seem to be able to understand that not all people engaging in homosexual activity are born that way. Some do change. Very simple. You can't put people in a nice litle box and say "that's who you are" because we are individuals with experiences, likes, dislikes, perceptions etc... Not all christians are haters (as this article points out), not all gays are born gay, not all ex-gays hate gays - I am sorry but you cannot tell me that I am anything but supportive to the GLBT community. And I was once a lesbian. Go figure. How do you explain that? Well, I have told you my story. You just don't like it. It does not mean that it is any less valueable than all the stories of our lives. Again, I am truly sorry for the hatred thrown onto gays by christians. But it is not my hatred.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous,
ReplyDeleteI take exception to only one thing you have said so far; either you were truly straight living as a lesbian or you are truly a lesbian now living as a straight woman. As I said earlier, I hope your situation is the former. Despite the rhetoric from the "ex-gay" ministries, there is very little evidence that people who experience natural same-sex instincts can be "cured" of them. Therefore, phrases like "leaving homosexuality behind" trouble me, because I believe that implies this type of "cure."
If you are interested in supporting gay rights because of the poor treatment you received while living as a lesbian, then God bless you.
Oh, I think I was truly straight living as a lesbian ( as I have written) but I believed at the time that I was a lesbian because that's what people said I had to be because I was in lesbian relationships and never straight relationships. It took alot of courage to admit that I was realy straight. I was intimidated and ridiculed by people I thought were my friends. The bias goes and exists in both camps. And I absolutely agree with you that there is no cure for natural homosexuality. But then if someone is really straight niether should they be intimidated into a life that does not suit them. I did not mean to create misunderstanding by using the phrase leaving homosexuality behind - I just don't know how else to describe that part of my life. But by the same token, there may be women or men like myself who should not be intimidated into staying in a life (whether gay or straight that does not meet their true self) Gays just have a hard time giving up the idea that not everyone who is acting gay is born gay. And the religious right can't seem to find it in their hearts or mind that people are entitled to live out their lives, too by their own understanding.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous,
ReplyDeleteI suspect that part of the reason gays resist the notion that someone can live as one without being born as one is the fact that the right wing uses that as one of their primary arguements to restrict GLBT rights--the "homosexual lifestyle" is a choice that people can decide to leave and become straight. Your story, regardless of your intent, lends credibility to that flawed logic.
The religious right doesn't respect anyone's understanding but their own, going beyond GLBT issues. That is one of the pet peeves of my life.
Jim,
ReplyDeleteThis woman would make some kind of an actress. It's obvious to me that she's so heavily into her ex-Gay role that she'd play it to an empty house. So . . . why don't we let her do just that? Let her keep playing the proud former Lesbian with a Gay Rights soul to a deserted theatre. Her acting hasn't convinced anybody yet, so the practice might do her some good. I'm outta here. The show must go on!
I agree with you, Jim. The religious right has flawed logic. Very flawed.
ReplyDeleteAs for SA - sorry you cannot accept grace from me. You are very hurt and my hope is that someday you and others won't have to be so defensive.